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Whole Foods co-founder John Mackey discusses his new book, Conscious Capitalism

In his new book, Conscious Capitalism, Whole Foods co-founder John Mackey extols the virtues of a business acumen that values everyone along the production and consumption line. We caught up with him in the run up to his appearance at BookPeople Tuesday night, January 15, to discuss conscious capitalism's finer details.

CultureMap: Help me pin down "Conscious Capitalism" more concretely: Is it a management style? An attitude change? Creed? What's a good way to describe the idea to consumers?

John Mackey: It’s a way of thinking about the higher purpose of a business, the relationship that business has with its key stakeholders and the impact it has on the world. It is a new business narrative explaining that business is inherently good because it creates value, it is ethical because it is based on voluntary exchange, it is noble because it can elevate our existence, and it is heroic because it lifts people out of poverty and creates prosperity.

CM: Plenty of businesses have done very well by not practicing conscious capitalism. Why change?

JM: These businesses have been competing against other businesses that are also not practicing conscious capitalism. However, our research shows that more conscious businesses tend to out-compete less conscious businesses over the long-term. Businesses that are only about maximizing profits will not win out in the end. It’s time to revolutionize capitalism and show that businesses are the greatest value creators in the world. Businesses have the power to help evolve humanity upward through continuous improvement.

CM: A lot the companies cited in your book as examples as practitioners of conscious capitalism are Fortune 500 companies like Apple. How can smaller, newer businesses or people looking to break into the market stick to their conscious capitalism guns when they have significantly less money? In other words, how do they negotiate giving up short-term gains for long-term gains when so many young businesses fail?

JM: The fact is there are thousands of smaller businesses embracing conscious capitalism right now. Raj and I highlight well-known companies in the book, but there are so many smaller companies that create positive impacts for customers, employees, suppliers, communities and the environment, resulting in exceptional customer experiences, less turnover, lower overhead costs, higher profits and sustained growth.

It’s a common mindset to believe that if someone wins, someone else must lose, but, in business, this is not the case. Business is not a zero sum game. It is actually the ultimate positive sum game. When businesses operate with purpose beyond profits and create value for all stakeholders, tradeoffs are largely eliminated, performance is elevated and the entire system flourishes.

Young businesses that adopt conscious capitalism and integrate it at their core so that all stakeholders benefit will be more successful over the long-term.

CM: Do any distinct examples of conscious capitalism in companies other than Whole Foods immediately come to mind? What are some things other businesses are doing that exhibit the tenets of conscious capitalism?

JM: In the book we highlight lots of companies like Southwest Airlines and The Container Store here in Texas. Nordstrom, UPS, REI, Google and Amazon are well-known brands we cover. POSCO and Tata are two companies based outside of the U.S. that we highlight.

The main thing all of these companies are all doing is considering all of their stakeholders in business decisions. These stakeholders include the community and the environment, and societal alignment is an intrinsic part of a conscious company’s philosophy and operating model.

That’s what’s different. It’s not like more traditional businesses that are focused primarily on profit maximization that think about societal impact after the fact and add on a Corporate Social Responsibility program to fight off criticism or make up for neglecting communities and the environment.

CM: What's next for Whole Foods? (Or what's next for Whole Foods' flagship store in Austin?)

JM: Our higher purpose is constantly evolving by tapping into our heightened level of consciousness for the good of Whole Foods Market, our stakeholders and for society as a whole. Right now, we are focusing on keeping all of our stakeholders happy by practicing conscious capitalism and helping spread this way of doing business to companies around the world.

We are also focusing on contributing being solution to improving the health of Americans by providing education and healthy foods. We are working on improving agricultural systems to make them more sustainable and humane, yet more efficient. And, we are helping end poverty on planet Earth through micro-loans to women in developing countries.

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San Antonio leads Texas on ending horse-drawn carriage rides by 2030

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Horses will no longer pull carriages on the streets of downtown San Antonio.

San Antonio has pulled off something that the rest of Texas has yet to do, but it didn't come without some contentious conversations. City Council has unanimously voted (with one abstention) to phase out the use of horse-drawn carriages over the next five years. That means by January 1, 2030, there will be none on the streets at all; instead, there will be electric carriages.

These plans have been in the making since 2022 — if not always at the same level of intensity — when District 2 Councilmember Jalen McKee-Rodriguez and District 3 Councilmember Phyllis Viagran wrote up some concerns about the horses' wellbeing. A special session at the end of October 2024 hinted to San Antonians that the end for this practice was neigh — sorry, nigh — and the final vote was made on December 12. In addition to accepting the plan, it extended its timeframe by two years.

The initial proposal included worries about the horses' exposure to traffic and pollution, as well how their presence might exacerbate those issues for the environment at large by slowing traffic. It also raised concerns about the effects of standing or walking on hard surfaces for too long, or spending time in extreme weather.

At the December 12 meeting, San Antonians gave impassioned speeches about animal welfare — both to call attention to the need for better conditions and to defend the reputations and jobs of current horse drivers — but it wasn't the first time the council heard from the public about the issue.

In a prior city survey, 50,476 respondents weighed in. Of those respondents, 51.98 percent said they liked the idea to "Transition horse-drawn carriages to electric carriages and pedicabs and ban horse drawn carriages completely." There were alternative solutions listed, but respondents were less drawn to them.

A cultural divide emerged in the data and continued in the December meeting: some people avoided the carriages because they worried about the treatment of the horses, while others enjoyed them because of their historical echoes and living legacy. Many speakers in favor of the plan used this to form their argument, raising questions about history versus progress.

More tangible objections to the plan hinged on the businesses — specifically five companies — and jobs that would be lost, which was the main factor behind extending the adjustment period.

Discussions about the particulars of the electric vehicles are still to come, as confirmed in the discussion near the end of the meeting. Councilmember Jalen McKee-Rodriguez addressed concerns about what would happen to the horses, mentioning the Brady Hunter Foundation as a future partner in finding them rescue homes.

Some council members also brought up rhetorical questions about animal exploitation by groups like Sea World, the San Antonio Stock Show & Rodeo, military and police forces, and even various groups in the Fiesta parade, although these did not come with a formal motion to pick the issues up.

This decision could have a ripple effect on other Texas cities. Dallas has recently considered a similar ban, but it appears to have stalled; Austin's attempts at a ban have been unsuccessful, but according to the Austin-American Statesman, only one operator is permitted to bring horses downtown. She declines to do so because the long hours are unfair to her and the horses. Houston does have horse-drawn carriages, and there seems to be little conversation about banning them.

Cities like Chicago and Salt Lake City have led the charge in the United States with some of the most prominent successful bans. Other cities around the world with bans include Brussels and Guadalajara, which both switched to electric models. Bans that have been around for years, like Guadalajara's and Prague's, still aren't out of the woods — people are still pushing back on the decision, so it sounds like San Antonio still has much work cut out for it.

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